Facial Redness and Max Molar Pain ?

[rideforever]

Hi

I have some strange symptoms.
My Maxillary Molar UL6 has a constant dull ache and if I eat sweet food it hurts a lot; seems like tooth decay.
But the worst thing is just above it on the face I get a red patch right after I eat after about 5 minutes. And I use an oral jet and quickly clean my mouth after I eat and then the redness subsides.
In the morning the redness is very pale but then I eat and bam it goes red again.
The patch has started to get bigger over several months.
In fact it has been going on for 2 years or so thinking back.
In the beginning the redness I thought might be suntan.
But definitely after eating it goes red and fast.
I would say it's obviously tooth decay or infection, but the dentist can't see anything on the Xray.

From the photo of the tooth it looks like the gum in front of it is a bit purple, like an infection.
From the Xray all I can see is that on the left side the filling at the crown seems to not be joined up in a straight line to the tooth, as if the tooth has decayed away from the filling.
And then on the left side of the tooth there seems to be a widened channel on the left side going into the gums, which is a bit strange.
So, I imagine that there is a bit of decay in the tooth near the gum line and it has made the gum purple and some food or saliva gets pushed in there when I eat.
But the dentist says she can't see anything when inspecting it visually.

Perhaps someone can give me advice.
thank you

 

[honestdoc]

I cannot explain for the redness on your face everytime you eat something. Only explanation for redness is your body's reaction to something like allergies. Are you taking any medications, herbal supplements, new toothpaste, oral rinse, cinnamon products, and or some kind of substance your body does not recognize? I don't see any cavities on x-ray or picture. I see gum recession and exposed root surface on UL6 (tooth #14) that may explain your sensitivty to sweets. With gum recession, you get some "black triangles" that could trap food and debris and cause discomfort. If your symptoms of UL teeth discomfort continues, I would check the tooth in front UL5 (#13). The filling is very close to the nerve. If the nerve is vital and healthy then great. If not, it may need a root canal. Another possibility is sinus pain which can mimic teeth pain. If you have more pronounced pain bending forward for going up & downstairs, see your physician for possible sinus infection. Many times grinding & clenching can also cause pain & discomfort.

 

[rideforever]

..

Thanks for your opinion.
Sweet food hurts teeth with tooth decay but not soft tissues or wounds in the mouth ... as far as I know.

The most important thing is the redness as it has spread to the entire left check up to the nose and even some parts of the face on the other side, over many months.

I can categorically rule out any sinus problems because I have had many since young swimmning so much. But I haven't had anything for years and no longer swim. And I would know. This redness is the same every single day, every single meal.

I can also rule out any skin condition. There is zero sensitivity on the skin. Nothing. I get hayfever and eczema from time to time and have had a few rashes, fungal conditions and bites. It is nothing like that. This redness is the same every single day every single meal.

And I am in very good health so no immune conditions whatsoever.
The redness is caused by the food and is cleared (at least partially) by irrigating that tooth.
It is the same every day for many months even more than a year when I was aware of it, and more than 2 years most likely looking back.

So, however difficult the symptoms might seem ... those are the symptoms.
The redness began originally just above the tooth on the cheek.
I can only assume that the food or bacteria are circulating through the bloodstream from that tooth, because nothing else would make my face red after food and cleared after irrigation.
On the pictures there is purple discolouration and white spots (might be the flash) on the gum in front of the tooth.
Additionally pressing on the tooth UL6 hurts.

 

[MattKW]

Did the dentist p[ulp test the tooth (a cold spray)? Have you tried desensitising toothpaste, and with what result?

 

[rideforever]

Did the dentist p[ulp test the tooth (a cold spray)? Have you tried desensitising toothpaste, and with what result?

Yes used cold spray but no big reaction.
I am using a desensitising toothpaste but I am used to the dull ache anyway and it doesn't bother me.

But the problem is the redness is still appearing after food and it has spread out to the entire cheek, lower eyelid, up to the nose. After I clean my teeth the redness is reduced but there is a residual redness.

It seems to me the only thing that would cause it is an infection and bacterima.

 

[rideforever]

Initially the redness was just over the tooth (UL6, or the left side of this drawing) but it has spread out left and right and after many months crossed to the other side.
Particularly on the nose the bridge is solid red but at the tip of the nose frequently there was a red mark on either side.
In my opinion this is following the blood vessels, meaning the redness is caused by something entering the bloodstream upon eating.

There is zero sensitivity or irritation on the face. Zero. Therefore it is not rossacea or any allergy.
After oral jet sometimes I am using Hydrogen Peroxide solution in it, the redness is much reduced.

So my only conclusion is that there is some infection that is entering the vessels from that tooth, even though it does not seem to appear from the xray.

However on the xray on the left side there is clearly visible a channel on the left side of the tooth that is wide and goes deeply in the gum. Why would that channel be widened ? Why is it not on the other teeth ?
Why does the tooth hurt on eating sugar ?
Surely the only answer is that there is some decay on that side of the tooth that is preventing the gum healing and closing that channel.

I can think of no other diagnosis that works with the symptoms.

Looking closer at that area of the xray. There is that black channel on the left of the tooth and if we look down (i.e. above the gum) the tooth is not solid white. Is that not some decay on the surface at the gum line ?
If there was decay there that was causing an infection in the gum ... the photos show discolouration there, then that channel will not heal and food will go down that channel.

Dentists have told me that this black channel is on all teeth. But on the xray it is not; it is only on this tooth.

The problem for me is that I can get the tooth removed no problem.
But it is large tooth and would be a loss, however I have no choice.

I would like a dentist to do a filling at the gum line, but they are not keen to do so.
In my opinion it is worth doing or the tooth will simply be pulled out and lost.

 

[MattKW]

1. If the tooth feels sweet pain or cold sensations then it is not dead and there is no uncontrolled infection.
2. There is no decay at the gumline. You may be mistaking it for radiographic burnout. Dentists don't want to do it because it is not there.
3. Decay does not cause infection in the gum.
4. If the rash is going across to the other side of the face, then it cannot be related to this tooth.
5. I think what you perceive as a black channel is simply radioluclent cancellous bone; there's nothing abnormal in the apperance of the bone.
6. Maybe you should see a dermatologist. This does not appear to be a dental issue.

 

[rideforever]

1. If the tooth feels sweet pain or cold sensations then it is not dead and there is no uncontrolled infection.
2. There is no decay at the gumline. You may be mistaking it for radiographic burnout. Dentists don't want to do it because it is not there.
3. Decay does not cause infection in the gum.
4. If the rash is going across to the other side of the face, then it cannot be related to this tooth.
5. I think what you perceive as a black channel is simply radioluclent cancellous bone; there's nothing abnormal in the apperance of the bone.
6. Maybe you should see a dermatologist. This does not appear to be a dental issue.

If you feel sweet pain then yes the tooth is not dead ... but this is a sign of tooth decay which is an infection. Toothache.

Decay (infection) which is in contact with the gum certainly can cause infection at the gum. Why wouldn't it, it is one infection in contact with other tissues.

The redness began above the tooth, after many months it spread outwards, in all directions. This is simply the spread of infection. Knowing the history you can see the progress. That is what the history is there for.
The pattern of redness indicates it is in the blood vessels.
And on the photos is discolouration in the gum at the point.
That is a lot of evidence.

The black channel in not a bone !!! It seems to be a space at the point in the gum which is purple on the photos.

According to the symptoms it could only be a tooth infection.

But I appreciate no smoking gun is on the xray.

I find your answers quite unintelligent in several ways.

Looking at various dentistry photos I see that dentists deal with people with terrible teeth, big gaps, big black marks on the xray and so on.
My case is very slight because I take a lot of trouble with my teeth every day.
Perhaps I should stop cleaning my teeth until this decay enlarges and the dentist can "see it".


I remember being in hospital once after a football game, my leg didn't feel good. I had 2 doctors inspect it and told me there was "nothing wrong" and proceeded to walk me around the waiting room. But I refused to walk on that leg. Then they got angry and told me to get lost and that I was wasting everyone time. After 20mins of this abuse I refused and they finally xrayed the leg.
Clean break straight through the fibula.
Then the doctors disappeared. No apology.
So much for doctors !!!

 

[MattKW]

OK, I offered my free opinion based on the evidence you presented, and you choose to go your own way. Good luck.

 

[rideforever]

OK, I offered my free opinion based on the evidence you presented, and you choose to go your own way. Good luck.

Thanks all the same.