Why does my crown hurt to tap it?

Discussion in 'Dental Archive' started by JimSocal, Jan 30, 2006.

  1. JimSocal

    JimSocal Guest

    I had a crown made, had it temporarily cemented, then had a root canal
    on that tooth (#30).

    Over a month since the root canal (done by an endodontist), and while
    I would not say it "hurts" per se, I will say that it is sensitive to
    touch. If I tap on it, with my finger or fingernail, especially from
    the side, it hurts ever so slightly. None of my other teeth feel like
    that when I tap them. I have waited to have it perm. cemented until I
    am SURE the root canal was done right and there will be no further
    need for opeing it up.

    It also is sensitive - ever so slightly - to cold, or to chewing at
    times.

    I had my USC dentist (not the endo) take an xray of it when I went
    there for a filling on another tooth, and she and her prof said it
    looked like the root canal was fine.

    I called the endo. and described the above symptoms and he said it was
    fine, go ahead and cement the crown.

    So once again, I am in a position of wondering: Am I being told the
    truth or am I a victim of a lazy endo who doesn't want to face the
    idea that he might have left some nerve in there?

    IF it IS normal that a crown have some sensitivity to touch in some
    cases, then I am willing to move forward, have it cemented permanently
    on, and live with the sensitivity.

    But if it's not then it would seem the endo HAS to go back in there.

    How do I proceed? The endo. has basically told me he isn't worried
    about it, that it's fine (although he has not looked at it after I
    left the office; though he DID take a post-endo. xray, right after the
    endo., and declare that it was fine based on that)

    Do I INSIST he take yet another xray , or whatever it takes, and look
    at it again before I have the crown cemented?

    This latter idea is my inclination, but if it is normal that a crown
    can be sensitive like this, then I will accept that.

    (All sincere, non-abusive comments are welcome. I didn't come here to
    be called names and be drawn into a fight with anyone.)
     
    JimSocal, Jan 30, 2006
    #1
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  2. JimSocal

    Guest

    I'm not a dental professional; I'm just a patient who's had a few root
    canals and crowns. My root-canalled teeth have always had sensitivity,
    often for quite some time after the procedure. As far as I can tell,
    the reason for this is a certain degree of irritation/inflammation of
    the gum tissue around the roots of the tooth. In my experiences it has
    taken anywhere from several weeks to over six months to resolve -- but
    it always has gone away in the end. The tooth never simply hurt or
    throbbed when I wasn't touching it, but was often sensitive to a
    sideways tap or to chewing, as you said. I'm not so sure about cold
    sensitivity, not (luckily) having any recent root canals at the moment!
    With x-rays that show nothing wrong, I would personally get the crown
    cemented. But a word of warning -- DEFINITELY get the tooth numbed
    before they do the cementing! Cementing a crown on a tooth with that
    kind of sensitivity without anaesthesia is awfully painful.
     
    , Jan 30, 2006
    #2
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  3. JimSocal

    JimSocal Guest

    On 30 Jan 2006 13:13:12 -0800, wrote:
    Thanks a lot. That makes me think that maybe the endo was telling me
    the truth, that it is "normal".
    It's a shame that one cannot trust one's dentist, but in these days of
    greedy medical/dental providers and insurance plans that force
    dentists to cut corners, it has been my experience that it is to my
    own benefit to be skeptical about some of the things they tell me.
     
    JimSocal, Jan 30, 2006
    #3
  4. JimSocal

    Sue Guest

    JimSocal wrote:
    Hi Jim,
    If your endo thinks it is ok, then hopefully it is ok. Here is a
    similar question, however it sounds like the pain this patient felt was
    slightly worse your pain.

    http://www.dental--health.com/rootcanals2.html

    Good luck,

    Sue (nondentist)
     
    Sue, Jan 31, 2006
    #4
  5. JimSocal

    Sue Guest

    Harleygyrl A Bikerchyck wrote:
    Harley of course it is BS.

    Any person with half a brain knows Jim should have #30 yanked
    immediately since he now has a dead tooth with a root canal.

    The endo is just seeing how much money the industry can get out of Jim
    and the ins co ($500 RCT), ($600+ for a permanent crown), followed by
    an apioectomy at least $800), another crown ($600+), before they end
    up yanking the tooth anyway.

    Once they yank it ($100), then they can place an implant for $1000+.
    Let this puppy rot, place a permanent crown.... and then rack up
    another 2-4K of dentistry... or perhaps just let Jim get endocarditis
    and die of an infection steming from this tooth. I am sure those are
    the thoughts going through this endo's mind.

    -Sue

    P.S. Just kidding Jim.
     
    Sue, Jan 31, 2006
    #5
  6. JimSocal

    Parker Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    I had two root canals about three years ago, and they've been a little
    sensitive to pressure, flossing and brushing ever since.

    The endodontist mentioned doing an apicoectomy if it got worse, but it
    never did, so I've been ignoring it. I guess it's never going to get
    better, though... Like I said, it's been three years. (A little over
    three years, actually.)
     
    Parker, Jan 31, 2006
    #6
  7. JimSocal

    JimSocal Guest

    On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:33:48 -0500, Parker <> wrote:
    Thanks for the feedback. At least it seems SOMEtimes these problems go
    away on their own.... I hope mine is one of those! Meanwhile I think I
    am going to TRY to insist the endo look at it again, if I can.
     
    JimSocal, Jan 31, 2006
    #7
  8. JimSocal

    Sue Guest

    JimSocal wrote:
    Jim,

    How did the professionals on the moderated forum answer your question?
    It does not seem right that a root canalled tooth should remain
    sensitive for 3 years (like Parker's has).

    If I was in your shoes, I would ask the endo what s/he thinks may be
    causing the sensitivity. For example is this it not an infection,
    then what is causing the sensitivity?

    I would to know if I was in your shoes.

    Best of luck,

    -Sue
     
    Sue, Jan 31, 2006
    #8
  9. JimSocal

    JimSocal Guest

    On 31 Jan 2006 14:44:12 -0800, "Sue" <> wrote:
    Thanks Sue. To answer your questions:

    Basically the dentists over on the new forum said that it could be
    just a root canal that is going to be sensitive for awhile. One
    comment was that sometimes the tissue around the tooth may have been
    traumatized by the rct itself or the infection. Or it could be from a
    fractured tooth. The root could be broken, and biting on it puts
    stress on tissues surrounding the tooth, which are very much alive.

    Someone else said it could be from heavy nighttime clenching, which I
    know nothing about. How do I find out if I am clenching at night, and
    if I am, what do I do about it? (I doubt I clench my teeth at night;
    I'm a light sleeper and I think if I did this, I'd be aware of it. But
    who knows?)

    The consensus - including what the endo's assistant told me today - is
    that the tooth could well still be traumatized from the RCT itself and
    the sensitivity could go away with some more time... or not.. But the
    endo and his assistant seem to think it's normal.

    I had to get very pushy with the endo's office to get them to give me
    a followup appointment. I don't know if it's because it's on my old
    dental insurance, or if it's just that they feel it's a waste of time,
    or what. But in any case I figured if I have to, I'll pay for it out
    of my pocket, I just need to KNOW what is going on with this tooth
    before I have the crown cemented permanently next week (I have an
    appointment to have that done.)

    So I'll let you all know what the endo says after I get back tomorrow
    afternoon.
     
    JimSocal, Feb 1, 2006
    #9
  10. I mostly do Endo, 95 % of my work is that
    if a rtc I did is sensitive I'd wait for, and no more than, 6 months, if
    after 6 months it is still sensitive, then I gotta go back in, an try a
    redo, if a redo doesn't work after another 6 months, then I suggests an
    apicectomy, which means I try to start less aggressive and then go further,
    only if necessary, always remember that every tooth/case/treatment/patient
    has it's OWN background, and that has to be taken into consideration.

    Smile, be Happy!
    Gabriel

    --
    Please if you resend this message
    (1) Erase the e-mail address from the person that sent it to you and anyone
    else that appears
    (2) Protect the addresses of destination by placing them on the BBC (Blind
    Copy).
    Thank You
    "JimSocal" <> escribió en el mensaje
    news:...
     
    DocGabeS D.M.D., Feb 1, 2006
    #10
  11. JimSocal

    Guest

    i had the same problem years ago. they did exactly that procedure. in
    fact, it hurt on it's own, too. they gave me antibiotics, so
    apparently (and this is what i suspected) there was an aerobic
    infection in it. later on, the root canal caused a cavitation, as all
    root canals eventually do. those r then, anaerobic bacteria. anyway,
    we pull root canals nearly every day. it is the only solution. below,
    see a patient's problem w/ a root canal. for more info also see:
    http://www.bikerchick.freehomepage.com/custom2.html

    Torrie
    here is an email b/t a patient and i on their root canal:
    THE FOLLOWING IS AN EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE THAT I THOUGHT MITE HELP SOME
    OF U
    Torrie

    Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 Subject: Re: unreachable canals

    Dear Dr. Morales,

    I just underwent root canal therapy on a rear, lower molar. Prior to
    treatment I had experienced acute pain in that tooth as well as the jaw
    underneath for a number of days. Penicillin had been prescribed (which
    didn't seem to have a noticeable beneficial effect) and on the third
    day of penicillin therapy, the root canal procedure was completed. The
    tooth was hemoragic (not sure of spelling) in that liquid escaped from
    the tooth as soon as the hole was made in the crown. At the end of the
    procedure, the endodondist let me know that there are many lateral
    canals that he couldn't reach and that therefore he was not totally
    optimistic this time that there will be a successful result. I have
    another day of antibiotics left and intend to take them (total was 25
    (500 mg.) PVK pills for this past week). This was the first time that
    he had mentioned to me about lateral canals. Do all molars have such
    lateral canals? Do you have any recommendations? Thank you.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    they can. george menig wrote the root canal cover-up. i have spoken to
    him personally. this is what he has to say about lateral canals:

    ....I was brought up was to know that if the patient had a good looking
    root canal, but was having a health problem afterwards, and
    particularly if you're not having any symptoms in the tooth, that you
    should suspect that the infection was coming from what are known as the
    lateral canals. These are accessory canals that come from the root of
    the tooth, not right at the end of the root of the tooth, and these do
    not show up on X-ray pictures, they are not easy to see, and it's
    impossible to treat them properly. Why so many endodontists today are
    assuring patients that there's nothing wrong - they've got to know that
    those accessory canals can become infected - and the only reason I can
    think is that they're afraid that they're going to be criticized for
    doing the root canal and it didn't work and maybe the patient might
    want their money back or that maybe they might get sued or something
    like that because so many of them today are telling the patient there's
    absolutely nothing wrong, maybe you'd better go see a psychiatrist.
    http://www.mizar5.com/LauraLeeshow.htm

    the only thing we do w/ root canals is pull the tooth; it is all that
    can b done in order to b healthy. Torrie, Consultant

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Torrie,

    Thank you for your timely response. Would you recommend extending the
    Penicillin therapy for another week in order to fight whatever
    infection may still be in the lateral canals? Would the additional
    penicillin likely have a beneficial effect?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    well, a better choice would prolly b a broad-spectrum antibiotic, but
    if u get results from the penicillin, u could take it. i would follow
    your dr's advice on it, since he gave it to u. typically, what they do
    is do the root canal over again until the person stops complaining of
    pain. i know because i have been thru this and so has my dad.
    eventually, u end up spending over $2,000 on one tooth and r still
    having problems. it sounds as tho u have an aerobic infection, which
    has to b treated by antibiotics (or pull the tooth and clean out the
    cavitation). the latter will cure it, the antibiotics will mask the
    real over-all problem. when dentists cannot get the infection out, they
    will put in a drainage tube and sometimes make hole inside the gum
    where they can go in and access it whenever they need to drain off
    infection. getting them to solve the problem and pull the tooth, is
    like, well, pulling teeth, so as to speak. often, they stick a crown on
    it, making it worse and spending more of your money. some ppl end up w/
    both an aerobic(needs oxygen) infection and anaerobic(needs oxygen-free
    envionment). usually, it is the former which causes the most pain and
    infection we can drain easily, but anaerobic ones can do this as well.

    ok, let's go over the root canal process. u have to get rid of the
    mentality that dentists impose on us, that root canals r a normal
    natural medical procedure w/ scientific studies to support it. it is
    actually the opposite. it is pretty easy to conceive that if u have a
    broken bone, that u go to the dr, he sets it, the bone grows back
    together and heals. it has all the nutrients and oxygen from the blood
    to do so. ok, so we take this tooth, we take some of the roots out,
    only 1/3 of what it actually has, but enough to kill it. so, it no
    longer has any life support. and, it is, in fact, the only place in the
    body drs will keep something dead that once was alive. for one, let's
    look at how an extraction heals. if the dentist (mainly, only biologic
    dentists r taught to do this) takes out the periodontal ligament, the
    bone on one side tries to reach the bone on the other side. it uses the
    nutrients and oxygen in the blood in order to do this. but, w/ a root
    canaled tooth, we have shoved gutta percha in there, making this
    healing impossible. on top of that, scientifically, in every case, when
    a living thing dies, there is bacteria. these anaerobic bacteria need a
    place to go. the dentists tell u that they seal all the roots so no
    bacteria can get into the body. for one, there r 3 miles of roots (the
    2/3 of roots left behind after a root canal) in a tooth and they cannot
    possibly seal all of them because they r far too small for bicalyx
    (formerly called endocal). also, some dentists use Calcium Hydroxide
    dressings. i would not want that stuff in me, see
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002910.htm . they try
    to kill the bacteria, but the bacteria r going to win in the end. what
    happens is, when a root canal is done and we use antibiotics or the
    other methods used to try and curtail the leaching of this bacteria
    into the jaw, the body is also helping us kill those bacteria by
    launching an immune response. well, this is not good. u want your
    immune system concentrating on protecting u against other illnesses
    rather than an infection, caused by a dr, that is unnecessary and
    unscientific. but, this is the most important aspect of a root canal;
    it is what keeps dentists doing them and patients coming back for more.
    our immune system goes into high gear and tries to prevent us from
    dying. in most cases, it does a very good job of keeping bacteria at
    bay; hence, what the dentists term as a "successful" root canal, but
    what is scientifically, an oxymoron. well, eventually, the outcome is
    obvious, the body will break down. u may go to your grave w/ a root
    canal in tact, w/ no pain or apparent infection, but your immune system
    simply couldn't spare enough energy over time to ward off heart disease
    or alzheimer's or whatever other malady came it's way. so, i guess it
    is a matter of picking your battles. is keeping a tooth more important
    than health is the question ppl have to answer for themselves. some ppl
    will only notice perhaps rheumatoid arthritis. is it worth it to them
    to live in pain and take meds every day, but having their smile not
    reflect any missing natural teeth? hmm. Torrie

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Torrie,

    I am very pleased with the thoroughness of your response. My dentist
    (who filled the hole in the existing crown as a result of the root
    canal) told me that the endodontist told him that my tooth was very
    infected. I told the dentist that I was experiencing some fairly mild
    (but of concern) jaw pain in the area of the tooth. He said that
    because there was actually an abcess on the jaw, this was to be
    expected. I asked if I should have an additional course of antibiotics,
    and he said that my immune system would eventually resolve the jaw
    discomfort. He said that the blood (with white blood cells) could more
    easily reach the jaw than the tooth itself (because the tooth is a
    closed system),. He expressed confidence that the jaw would heal. I
    asked him about a wider spectrum antibiotic (because it seemed to me
    that the penicillin didn't really have a beneficial effect at all. He
    said that if penicillin can be tolerated it is usually the best choice
    for tooth type bacteria. Anyway, my jaw still throbs (fairly mildly
    though) now 6 days after the root canal. I guess it may take a little
    more time. If you have additional thoughts, I would be interested.
    Thank you again for your timely and comprehensive response to my
    inquiry.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------well,
    i don't know if u can muddle thru all this
    http://www.ratsteachmicro.com/Anaerobic_Bacteria_Notes/HCOE_CAI_Review_Notes_Anaerobic_Bacteria.htm.
    but the bacteria r often broader, so that is y penicillin does not
    always do the trick. if the antibiotics work, of course it will b just
    a bandaid approach, something your dentist cannot see the "forest 'fore
    the trees" on.

    Torrie

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    oh yes, i do have one additional question. after these root canal teeth
    are pulled, do you then recommend implants, dentures or what? to take
    the place of these missing teeth. i would appreciate a response to this
    last question. thank you very very much.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    implants r bad. see below for something i wrote about them. if the
    teeth r bridgeable, u can get bridges. or, u can get partials. we have
    a temporary partial ready the same day and u have to wear it 2 to 3
    months b4 getting permanent work.

    Torrie

    titanium implants are putting metal and a high milliamperage close to
    the brain, which is not good. i have seen a woman measure nearly 400
    milliamps positive charge and 30 neg charge while having these in her
    mouth. we removed them. our body runs on electrical impulses, so this
    can disrupt those. also, dentists and drs will tell u that bone grows
    to titanium implants. well, it will grow around it. but, it is a
    foreign object and the body will build up antibodies to it. over time,
    it will pull away from the bone and can become loose. if u will notice,
    they say implants last about 15 years or so. they are working on an
    implant made of diamond, supposed to b available in 5 yrs. but, it will
    still b a foreign object, so i don't think it will be a good idea
    either.
     
    , Feb 1, 2006
    #11
  12. JimSocal

    JimSocal Guest

    On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 11:49:58 +0200, "DocGabeS D.M.D."
    <> wrote:
    Thank you. Mine has only been a month, so I guess I'll probably have
    to go ahead and cement the crown permanently and hope for the best. I
    have an appointment for the endo. to look at it today, though.
     
    JimSocal, Feb 1, 2006
    #12
  13. JimSocal

    Sue Guest

    JimSocal wrote:
    Thanks for your updates Jim.

    Sharing all of your questions throughout this process helps others.
    Your questions, the responses here and you relaying your interpretion
    of the professional responses, are very helpful to other patients,
    laypeople and professionals alike, IMHO.

    (BTW, I hope you do not get chastized for paraphrasing what the
    dentists on the other forum said to you).

    I am going to read through this thread in its entireity again, so it
    sinks in.

    Thanks again,

    -Sue
     
    Sue, Feb 2, 2006
    #13
  14. JimSocal

    JimSocal Guest

    On 1 Feb 2006 17:08:52 -0800, "Sue" <> wrote:

    No problem.
    Yes, that's my main motivation for getting back here with what I find
    out from people I talk with.
    I hope not, too. No reason why it should be a problem, in my mind.
    They did not want to deal with this group, and I can understand why,
    with all the fighting that was going on, and the contstant b.s. from
    Jan and so on. But I see no reason why they should care if I post what
    I learn from them, or anyone else, here. If they do have a problem
    with it then I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

    By the way, I think Jan has a RIGHT to post her anti-rtc stuff here.
    BUT, if you post and post the same stuff over and over to the same
    people who don't want to hear it, then it becomes more like spamming
    or trolling... Who knows what is "right" as far as the healthfulness
    of RCT? All I know is, I see that RCT often works out well for people
    and beats losing a tooth. She disagrees. So be it. But I have kill-
    filed her because I've made my decision to believe in the validity of
    RCT and I don't need to read her posts over and over again, telling me
    it's not healthy. We just disagree; so be it. I don't wish to discuss
    it or argue about it.
     
    JimSocal, Feb 2, 2006
    #14
  15. JimSocal

    pdurant Guest

    I've had both experiences....root canals that have lasted for decades
    and one that failed after 5 years (recurrent infections). This bottom
    molar had rct, two full crowns (one pre-rct and one post rct), an
    apicoectomy which failed, was extracted last summer and now I will be
    getting an implant - final cost on treatment of this one tooth is
    hovering around $6,500 - not counting the fillings/problems that led to
    the original rct. But it is the only molar I have on that side of my
    lower jaw, so I need it - having done everything to save it, I must
    now do what it takes to replace it and hope that works.
     
    pdurant, Feb 2, 2006
    #15
  16. JimSocal

    JimSocal Guest

    On 2 Feb 2006 06:48:16 -0800, "pdurant" <>
    wrote:
    I understand. I had problems with my one back molar (#18) too, and I
    did everything I could to save it, but now it's gone and I have to get
    an implant. I'm actually getting FIVE implants - yikes! - due to
    having had 9 or so pulled when I was a kid, and never having anything
    done to replace them. Now that problem has finally come home to roost
    (after I lost #18 I had NOTHING left to chew with). Good luck with
    your implant!
     
    JimSocal, Feb 2, 2006
    #16
  17. JimSocal

    pdurant Guest

    Wow - we have similar situations! I just had 4 implants and a bone
    graft two weeks ago to replace top-front teeth lost in my early teens.
    My mother had taken tetracycline while pregnant with me which I am told
    caused the enamel to not form correctly on my top front 6 teeth. Alas,
    3 of those teeth ended up getting abscessed after numerous fillings
    failed to halt their deterioration. I don't know if there was any
    other treatment available back then (early 60's) but my parents
    couldn't afford much so the decision was made to pull them.

    I had a partial plate from age 12 to 24....then had my own income to be
    able to afford a bridge. That lasted for 20 years, the second bridge
    lasted for 12 years before the anchor eye tooth on one side broke off
    near the gum line last October. The remedy was either to do another
    bridge - going from a 6 unit to 8 unit bridge....or pull the broken eye
    tooth, do a bone graft and 4 implants to replace the teeth. I opted
    for the latter, and am hoping for a permanent fix this time. I don't
    want to go through this again - the expense over the years of
    remedying the ill-advised tetracycline prescription has been enormous!

    Good luck to you also - hope the sensitivity goes away and you can
    proceed with the rest of your treatment uneventfully.
     
    pdurant, Feb 3, 2006
    #17
  18. JimSocal

    JimSocal Guest

    On 3 Feb 2006 06:36:12 -0800, "pdurant" <>
    wrote:
    Hi,
    I'll respond paragraph by paragraph below:
    I don't know WHAT caused my teeth problems and what is weird is that
    my parents don't remember why I had them pulled, either. All I know
    is, I went to a hospital like environment in 1968 or so and they gave
    me a general anesthesia and I came out with a bunch of teeth missing.
    At least you had a bridge and partial over the years; I had nothing. I
    have no idea why my parents thought I "didn't need" some kind of
    bridge or something. They were upper middle class and COULD have
    afforded it. I am a bit pissed at them, that they didn't do anything
    for me, but I don't say anything. They're old, and there is no point
    in bumming them out.

    Over the years I got used to not having the teeth (all molars) and
    chewed with my front teeth, and gums against molars, and everything
    seemed okay. As I got older the dentists would suggest bridge work and
    partials but in my earlier years I could not afford them, and in later
    years I said "Why? I'm fine the way I am." I was so used to it, it
    seemed normal to me.

    However I did not see the truth of the matter which was that the extra
    stress on my other teeth would break them down and so now I have 2
    chipped front teeth, had #18 extracted recently, and #30 with a crown
    and root canal. I plan to get veneers on my front teeth too if my
    money holds out. (Credit, actually.)
    Me too! Please report back here with any problems or just to update me
    on your progress and experiences with these implants. I don't go in
    for the actual implant surgery for another month or two, so I'm a bit
    apprehensive. If you have any problems, your telling me, here, could
    help me avoid similar problems. Feedback is always good.

    Good luck to you!
     
    JimSocal, Feb 3, 2006
    #18
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