noble and high noble metals?

Discussion in 'Dental Archive' started by MS, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. MS

    MS Guest

    What are considered noble metals, and what are considered high noble metals,
    as far as material to be used in dental crowns? (as listed in my dental
    insurance policy)

    What is the disadvantage of using these materials, instead of gold?

    Thank you.
    MS, Mar 20, 2008
    #1
  2. MS wrote:


    This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct
    definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no
    industry standard that I know of.
    The noble metals used commonly in dentistry are gold, platinum, and
    palladium. Pure gold is almost never used in dentistry, as it's too
    soft to cast. An old method of filling is called "direct gold" or "gold
    foil" and this is almost pure gold, but this can pretty much be ignored
    for insurance purposes. My understanding is that "high noble" is an
    alloy that is primarily noble metal--ie: over 50% gold and/or platinum
    and/or palladium. But don't quote me on that. ;-)

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY
    718-258-5001
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld, Mar 20, 2008
    #2
  3. MS

    MS Guest

    "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <> wrote in message
    news:6LAEj.17164$Id3.2524@trnddc07...
    Thanks for the info, Steve.

    When one normally gets a gold crown, then, since you write that pure gold is
    almost never used, what is the combination used in that case? How does that
    differ from the "high noble" designation, which you write is over 50% gold?

    Is there much difference between the two in how the crown holds up? Have
    there been any negative health effects from using the "high noble" metals
    instead of "gold"?

    I ask because the insurance coverage for crowns, with a co-pay from me, is
    for "noble or high noble" metals. The dentist says that is for the "basic"
    material, if I want gold crowns there is a high upgrade fee he adds to that,
    almost doubling the amount. (As it is for a four crown-bridge, the price
    difference would be significant.)

    Could my dentist possibly be mistaken--if "high noble" includes over 50%
    gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown basically
    the same as a "gold crown"?
    MS, Mar 21, 2008
    #3
  4. MS

    MS Guest

    "Amatus Cremona" <..com> wrote in message
    news:...
    That question doesn't relate to my question at all, regarding what is
    considered "high noble metal" (in terms of a crown or bridge), and how that
    might differ or be the same as the material used in a "gold crown".

    My dental insurance is a DHMO (United Concordia), but I don't see that as
    relevant to my question.

    MS, Mar 21, 2008
    #4
  5. MS

    Guest

    On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:55:56 GMT, "MS" <> wrote:
    Very seriously doubt it.
    Think we went round and round with you on your
    misappropriated semantics not very long ago.


    A "full cast gold crown" is made from a gold alloy.
    Type I, II, III, and IV dental gold alloys are used,
    with Type III predominating single unit crowns.

    24K, .9999 Fine, and "pure" gold are equivalent terms.
    Too soft for dental crowns, it can be cast however.

    'noble' and 'high noble' are just terms used to indicate
    the relative gold content of the alloys used.
    They are still both colloquially termed "gold crowns".

    If you want to know more try looking up: Dental Casting Alloys
    There is way too much information to cover here, even if I
    was inclined to do so.
    , Mar 22, 2008
    #5
  6. MS

    MS Guest

    Thanks again for the informative reply. :)

    So, the "basic" material is mostly stainless steel? For people with
    sensitive teeth, could that be a problem?

    You write about the negative effect of beryllium in some of the "basic"
    alloys, on the health of the dentist, dental workers, etc. What about on the
    patient? Can any of that material seep into the patient's blood stream?

    How about mercury? Is there any of that in the "basic" alloy, as there are
    in amalgam fillings?

    Thanks again for your informative replies, Dr. Bornfeld.



    "Steven Bornfeld" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    MS, Mar 22, 2008
    #6
  7. MS

    Guest

    On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 01:10:34 GMT, "MS" <> wrote:
    No, non-precious dental casting alloys generally contain
    Ni, Cr, Co.
    No steel, which is specially processed Fe.
    Nope, the hazard is in Be vapor and inhaled particulate matter.
    Mostly affects dental laboratory personnel that cast and polish the
    alloys containing Be.

    No.
    He meant "Base", as in: predominantly base metal
    ie. doesn't contain Au, Pt, or Pd
    , Mar 22, 2008
    #7
  8. MS

    Guest

    On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:25:30 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
    <> wrote:

    Yep non-precious alloy holds up just fine. (look like crap under
    porcelain IMO, but that's another discussion)
    Non-precious refers to Ni,Cr, Co alloys generally.

    However, Stainless Steel it ain't !
    SS=Specially processed formulations/alloys of Fe.
    , Mar 22, 2008
    #8
  9. MS

    Guest

    Bingo ! Give Amatus a cigar.

    On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:14:03 GMT, "MS" <> wrote:
    , Mar 22, 2008
    #9
  10. MS

    The Webby Guest

    Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ......
    ;-)

    Webby

    In article <>,
    wrote:
    I know, I know... metaphorically speaking ...

    Webby ;-)
    The Webby, Mar 22, 2008
    #10
  11. On Mar 21, 8:33 pm, The Webby <> wrote:
    BIO2000 gold used for porcelain is 24K. but this stuff is very
    delicate to work with. If the technician drops it, it will dent and he
    will have to start over.
    High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold
    SemiPrecious is white gold about 12K 50%gold=type4 gold. There is a
    yellow gold of this category depends whether there is more palladium/
    platinum vs gold that gives the colour.
    nobel is somewhere in between can be white or yellow gold.
    non precious is all nickel and other metals of no value this is what
    HMO crowns are made from.
    Alexander Vasserman DDS, Mar 22, 2008
    #11
  12. MS

    The Webby Guest

    In article
    <-media.com>,
    The Webby <> wrote:
    Oops! Metaphorically??? I think the metaphor got away because on second
    look, I don't see it! ;-)
    The Webby, Mar 22, 2008
    #12
  13. MS

    Matt Guest

    MS wrote:
    There is the issue of whether gum sticks to the crown or recedes---that
    depends on the material and is most important on front teeth. Gum loves
    porcelain and hates nickel.

    You should avoid getting cheap---hopefully the crowns are going to be in
    your mouth for a lifetime. Don't underestimate the effects of people
    seeing big hunks of metal every time you open your mouth. Consider
    porcelain-covered gold for back teeth, porcelain for front teeth.

    Take care of your remaining dental assets so you won't have to make
    decisions like this in the future.
    Matt, Mar 22, 2008
    #13
  14. MS

    Guest

    On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:40:47 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
    <> wrote:

    It's copper oxide that is green.

    Believe you have a little statue that shows this.
    , Mar 22, 2008
    #14
  15. MS

    Guest

    Yep, sure does. Two stroke Saabs. <hehe>


    On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:33:39 -0700, The Webby
    <> wrote:
    , Mar 22, 2008
    #15
  16. MS

    Guest

    On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:55:25 -0700 (PDT), Alexander Vasserman DDS
    <> wrote:

    High Nobel ? Is that when Alfred blows up ?


    75% Au is 18K.
    Type III refers to hardness, not Au content.

    Believe high noble is 60% or higher Au content.
    , Mar 22, 2008
    #16
  17. MS

    Vaughn Simon Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    Close but not exactly. (At least according to the Identalloy folks)

    High Noble (HN) = Noble Metal Content >= 60%, Gold Content >= 40%
    Noble (N) = Noble Metal Content >= 25%
    Predominantly Base (PB) = Noble Metal Content < 25%

    From the bottom of the page at: http://www.identalloy.org/

    Vaughn
    Vaughn Simon, Mar 22, 2008
    #17
  18. MS

    Vaughn Simon Guest

    Vaughn Simon, Mar 22, 2008
    #18
  19. MS

    Guest

    On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:29:05 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
    <> wrote:

    OK so *total* noble metal content >= 60%
    Knew I got that figure from somewhere.

    Thanks
    , Mar 22, 2008
    #19
  20. MS

    Guest

    , Mar 22, 2008
    #20

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