Denture Mini Implant

Discussion in 'Dental Archive' started by voicelit, Aug 19, 2005.

  1. voicelit

    voicelit Guest

    So, really need all my teeth removed. All my web research leads me to
    Mini Implant Retained Over-Dentures. Expense , an issue. Therefore: not
    just implants or " non mini " sized implants for retention. Been told I
    have great bone ( dense ) in jaw. Been in touch with : Imtec ( MDI ),
    IntraLock ( MDL ) with no real solution so far. Meaning, they haven't
    located a local enough Doc for me yet.
    I'm in the Yorktown / Mohegan Lake , Ny area: 10547 , Westchester
    County .
    Just stunning how tough it is to locate a local ( or even reasonable
    travel ) dentist that makes clear that this procedure is a possibility
    for them. One has to just go " fish " with consult / x-ray fees piling
    up.
    My wife and I have just bought our first house. Would love to find the
    procedure ( extraction - maybe using insurance for that - , mini
    implants, dentures ) for around $3,000.00. Wonder if that's just
    impossible; or if Canada, dental schools , or some other innovative
    idea is needed. Or just " give it up " and go get the teeth pulled and
    get the old George Washingtons?

    Thanks for any help,

    Marty ( voicelit )
     
    voicelit, Aug 19, 2005
    #1
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  2. >
    Probably "that's just impossible" at that price.

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    Amatus

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    "voicelit" <> wrote in message
    news:...
     
    Amatus Cremona, Aug 19, 2005
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  3. voicelit

    voicelit Guest

    Joel Of Philadelphia ? I'm from Philly. 2 mini implants for $1,000.00 .
    Can't remember how many are recomennded for retaining a denture. 2 for
    mandible, 4 for maxilla ? Or 4 bottom and 6 on top. Whatever : that
    could be 2 grand for the bottom, 4 grand for the top : $ 6,000 ; plus
    whatever : say $ 500. each for dentures ( have no idea how good or bad
    dentures at that price are ) : $ 7,000 ; extractions etc... Between
    $7,000.00 and $10, 000 all together ?
    Gee, had an offer from Koos up in Stratford , Ct. to do it with real
    implants for $17,000.
    Lot of dentists are pushing the envelope with minis if you check the
    Dentaltown forum under Mini.


    Marty ( voicelit )
     
    voicelit, Aug 20, 2005
    #3
  4. voicelit

    Joel344 Guest

    Hiya Marty (the other Marty!)

    I've seen this implant stuff advertised recently (well within the pas
    five years ~ my how time flies!) as $1,000 for two mini-implants se
    into your old denture ~ it may have been from a shop called
    "AFFORDABLE DENTURES." ..... One guy called my regular dental sho
    several days ago and asked for a price for implants but then retorte
    that he already had a fee in his pocket of $650 per implant.

    When I asked about was that mini-implant or maxi-implant he had no ide
    what I was talking about but I already knew. So I explained a bit an
    recommended that he come in for a free consultation to get a bette
    informed diagnosis. Of course I snagged his e-mail (this was a phon
    call, remember) and I sent him information and the image that i
    recreated below.

    Jeez, its exactly like a phone system. There are so many ways t
    approach the problem, each with different features and each wit
    different costs.

    This forum, sci.med.dentistry/DentalCom.Net/MedKB/host of others is
    public way of INFORMING patients and ourselves so that we are all o
    the same page. What we got going on is a syndication o
    patients/doctors who offer opinions about dental problems. Basically
    am still learning this stuff myself although I should know better as m
    first continuing education dental implant course was in 1968. S
    dentists and patients, tell us what is your opinion of this. Ar
    mini-implants as effective in the lower edentulous (toothless) arch?

    ANSWERS to other questions.

    1. I believe four are recommended, however this depends on vertica
    height of bone. Often the molar region is way worn down (atrophied).

    2. Upper denture will stay in just great WITHOUT implants, in fac
    often times better. Suction is the key. I have had a number of patient
    call me from home to ask how to get those suckers out. The answer is t
    blow air up behind the denture and break the seal.

    (This assumes decent maxillary bone structure and a lack of movabl
    mucosa!)

    3. If you are spending big bucks get the job done right and have
    porcelain/metal non-removable roundhouse CEMENTED onto the abutments.

    4. If you spend the dough you are entitled to at least this.

    5. In my shop there are two periodontists doing the surgica
    implantation. We are offering reasonable fees along with top-notc
    care!

    6. Who are AFFORDABLE DENTURES? Well its a chain. There are two of the
    in our area however there were three. The one that folded was the sam
    guy advertising the $1,000 for two implants and was located around 67t
    and Market Streets in the Upper Darby region. Its a couple of building
    south of the old Horn and Hardart building that may be a McDonald'
    today.

    Another is in New Jersey while the third is at Roosevelt Mall. I hav
    no idea how they operate, however, I am always suspicious of people wh
    advertise on TV about their one-day service. This is a common misnomer
    If you need dentures tomorrow, you may or may not get the best job.
    know .... I have done too many one-day wonders to count!

    So who is the ORIGINAL Marty? Well check her profile piccie at thi
    thread or naother thread ... you will not be disappointed. She is
    dental hygienist from the Paoli area ........ and a very popular denta
    hygienist from what I am told.



    Joely



    STANDARD DISCLAIMER APPLIES: This is not diagnosis or treatmen
    suggestion. That cannot be done without an in-person consultation an
    examination, in Pennsylvania and in other jurisdictions.




    VOICElit (MARTY)

    Joel Of Philadelphia ? I'm from Philly. 2 mini implants for $1,000.0
     
    Joel344, Aug 20, 2005
    #4
  5. voicelit

    letsconnect Guest

    voicelit wrote:
    As far as I can see: for minis, 4-6 on bottom (or 2-3 root form
    implants). For maxilla, minis are not really recommended (but as Joel
    pointed out, people tend to have less problems adapting to full
    uppers). If you really want an upper implant-retained denture, this
    would work out quite expensive. You can check out this group as well
    (for user opinions):
    http://groups.msn.com/denturesanewsmile/general.msnw
     
    letsconnect, Aug 20, 2005
    #5
  6. voicelit

    Joel344 Guest

    Excellent resource, Let's (Letsconnect). Thanks. I do not believe I hav
    seen the MSN site before. Its looks like interesting general discussion
    but there is no way to search within the discussions. Say I am lookin
    for "mini-implants." Do I have to open each thread and read it? I hav
    become so lazy (and so efficient) with all this newfanged interne
    stuff!

    Now where are my 3x5 index cards anyway?


    Joel

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    Joel344, Aug 20, 2005
    #6
  7. voicelit

    letsconnect Guest

    Joel344 wrote:
    msn groups are a Microsoft thingy... do you REALLY expect a SEARCH
    FUNCTION??? :p
    You can ask a question though and wait for replies... For technical
    aspects of implant-retained dentures, DT's implantology forum is more
    informative, but it's still interesting to read about first-hand (or
    rather, -mouth) experiences (actually, the search function on DT is
    pretty useless as well - boolean operators don't seem to work?)
     
    letsconnect, Aug 20, 2005
    #7
  8. voicelit

    voicelit Guest

    That's 4 to 6 just to " retain / stabilize " the lower denture -
    guess be cause they're " minis " ? Wouldn't 2 mini implants at least
    improve the lower denture's stability ?
    Would some " mini implants " in the maxilla allow for a palateless
    denture ? Less speech problems ?
    Still interesting how difficult the search for a dentist that has
    any experience with these things. Imtec allows for you to select a city
    , but then you're only seeing who attended one Imtec course. What does
    that really tell you.
    You do see alot of " UK " ( Brit ) stuff on this.
    Yea, I'd have to come up with some really innovative / complex set
    of moves to get this done in our budget : have the insurance pay for
    the basement-level extractions, cheapo dentures... then try and get
    someone to work with me about the " minis ".
    Then there's schools ; haven't been able to get myself into a "
    study " of some kind. So far. Travel to Costa Rico or someplace . Is it
    " Hungry " in Europe that's the hot spot for this ?
    Will check on " original " marty soon. " Upper Darby " wow " Horn &
    Hardhart's "... I'll bet I coulda got this done cheap and well at "
    Gimbel's ".

    Marty ( voicelit )
     
    voicelit, Aug 20, 2005
    #8
  9. voicelit

    Joel344 Guest

    You have posed excellent questions. A prime consideration about how thi
    needs to be designed has to do with the severity of the bite, the forc
    of the bite, the lateral excursions, and the dentist's judgemen
    (guess-timate) of same!

    For many people, there is not a huge amount of lateral, side-to-sid
    displacement so two implants may do the trick to prevent the backward
    slippage.

    On the upper, if you eliminate the palate, you eliminate the "suction.
    This means that two implants will never do the job. Why not? Because th
    denture will rotate around the fulcrum, that is the line bisecting th
    two implants.

    STEP ONE is always to be sure that the dentist has plenty of dentur
    experience. If the dentures themselves prove to be a problem, try tw
    lower mini-implants for stabilization.

    If a better approach is desired, prepare to pay more, much more.

    Joe

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    Joel344, Aug 20, 2005
    #9
  10. voicelit

    letsconnect Guest

    As far as I understand, you're running the risk of one or both implants
    becoming loose where only 2 minis are involved. Stability is the second
    issue.
    I've often wondered about Hungry myself...
    If there are any dental schools near you, you should check into this.
    Joel would know more though (PA, right?)
     
    letsconnect, Aug 20, 2005
    #10
  11. voicelit

    voicelit Guest

    Nah, Voicelit ( marty ) here. I'm in the New York area . Yorktown ,
    Westchester County. 10547

    Marty
     
    voicelit, Aug 20, 2005
    #11
  12. voicelit

    Joel344 Guest

    This is true. Being Hungry makes people chew more vigorously. I sugges
    smaller meals more often so you do not get TOO HUNGRY and do not CHE
    YOUR FOOD to the point of loosening your implants.


    Joel




    letsconnect Wrote:
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    Joel344, Aug 20, 2005
    #12
  13. voicelit

    letsconnect Guest

    Sorry, I was getting mixed up with a different thread location-wise. If
    cost is the main concern, dental schools would be worth investigating,
    though it might take a bit of time for the work to be completed. 4
    minis (lower) might be your best bet, unless you can afford two or
    three "standard" lower implants. One advantage of the minis is that
    usually, the overdenture can be attached immediately. Also, they can
    work where ordinary implants can't (due to lack of decent bone).
    Otherwise, most implant specialists would recommend 'standard'
    implants. But the minis might work just fine.
     
    letsconnect, Aug 21, 2005
    #13
  14. voicelit

    voicelit Guest

    Well, I go see this guy : Dr. Joseph Zaky here in Yorktown, Ny.
    tomorrow. Free consult, free x-rays.
    Don't have much hope that he can actually do it for around $3,000.00,
    but might point me in some direction.
    I like the immediate aspect of the minis.
    Seems I'd have to luck in to some strange situation: someone needs to
    " experiment " in some way, needs to "try out " some new equipment.

    Marty ( voicelit )
     
    voicelit, Aug 22, 2005
    #14
  15. voicelit

    Joel344 Guest

    Joel344, Aug 22, 2005
    #15
  16. voicelit

    Dr. G. Guest

    Joel344 <> wrote:

    Thanks for the references.
    I think some of them are a bit questionable, but in the long run I can
    find no reason to believe the minis won't work well given the proper
    indication.

    Dr. G.
    prosthodontist

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    Dr. G., Aug 22, 2005
    #16
  17. voicelit

    Dr. G. Guest

    "voicelit" <> wrote:
    While I can see the convenience of immediate treatment, I wonder about
    the practicality.
    I have no experience with minis, but I do have extensive experience with
    some other types of implants.
    Some of the research to which Dr. Joel referred me, seemed to suggest
    that there was a (bit) less success with minis placed and loaded
    immediately compared to those which were allowed to heal and were then
    "put to work". This same thing has been seen with other types of
    implants.
    I think this is something you should talk to your dentist about before
    you decide to do anything. Could be nothing the worry about. Then
    again...?

    Dr. G.
    prosthodontist

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    Dr. G., Aug 22, 2005
    #17
  18. voicelit

    Dr.Braces Guest

    We have been using mini's in various locations for anchorage supports
    for sectional movement for the last few years. We have found they can
    speed up treatment, especially for those patietns who are not compliant
    with headgear or other patient controlled factors.

    Dr. Braces


    On 2005-08-21 21:51:07 -0700, "Dr. G." <> said:
     
    Dr.Braces, Aug 22, 2005
    #18
  19. voicelit

    Joel344 Guest

    We are on the same page here Dr. G. In fact, I am exploring and thinkin
    this issue through right now, for very practical reasons.

    All things being equal, what we prefer are root-form implants, togethe
    with fixed, non-removable porcelain fired onto a metal substructure
    Unfortunately, this is expensive care. And we prefer that implan
    placement be done by one of our specialists who has completed two o
    three years of full-time advanced dental study through an accredite
    university program.

    This is what we are doing over at our shop. We are coordinating th
    treatment for maximum patient benefit.

    That said, there are people with slipping lower dentures who still nee
    care. Perhaps they live on disability payments, or just have not pu
    together a decent career. Well, that MAY be justification for
    FALLBACK position.

    We are exploring the literature and we agree that what I posted is no
    representative, fair, balanced, or even anything but the mos
    superficial introduction into the discussion. Perhaps this discussio
    is of interest to this group.

    Joe

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    Joel344, Aug 22, 2005
    #19
  20. voicelit

    voicelit Guest

    Voicelit ( marty ) original poster here. Went to that free consult in
    Yorktown Heights, Ny today. Kinda offputting . X-rays. The dental
    assistant hands me a bunch of loose leaf binder type books full of
    amateurish graphics and polaroids of bad teeth corrected by the
    dentist. Another dingy book of letters of apreciation from worshipful
    patients. Strange place above a busy intersection , huge cosmetic
    dentistry photo in window - all yellowed with age. Place was clean, but
    a strange of purple I'd associate with some depressing fast food joint.
    Doctor was very conversant with implants and minis. I asked if he
    used Imtec, he said he used a better product, I asked " MDL, Intra Lock
    ?" he says: " so, you have done some research" .
    Whatever. He's probably right that the basic cost would be about 6
    grand each - upper and lower. What with extractions, healing, temporary
    denture, 4 minis for the lower - I think he came to this price without
    any minis on the upper, just suction - etc...
    I'm still gonna search around for some unique set of situations that
    brings all this in for less money before just having them all yanked
    out and whatever dimestore dentures my MetLife insurance will pay for.
    Stay tuned.
    Hey Joel, know much about the Philly scene? I was quite the local "
    art star " down there during the '70s.

    Marty ( voicelit )
     
    voicelit, Aug 23, 2005
    #20
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