First thing: They're all in it together. From coast to coast American
dentists have all signed-on to the religion of overcharging. And you
can forget about dental schools which were once a safe-haven for those
seeking reasonable dental fees -- no more. Today even dental schools
which certainly don't need the money, overcharge; possibly to get the
students in the right frame of mind before they graduate.

So what to do?

Here's what I recommend: Get all your dental work done overseas while
on vacation. For example, prices is Mexico City are 20%% -50% less and
the dental work is very good. If you're nervous about being treated by
a Mexican trained dentists, locate one who graduated from an American
school; they've got plenty of them.

And if you bring the kids, that $10,000 worth of dental work the family
needs can drop to $5000 to $2500.

Terrific, no?

ricland

On 18 Jun 2006 06:13:49 -0700, "rick" <> wrote:

>First thing: They're all in it together. From coast to coast American
>dentists have all signed-on to the religion of overcharging. And you
>can forget about dental schools which were once a safe-haven for those
>seeking reasonable dental fees -- no more. Today even dental schools
>which certainly don't need the money, overcharge; possibly to get the
>students in the right frame of mind before they graduate.
>
>So what to do?
>
>Here's what I recommend: Get all your dental work done overseas while
>on vacation. For example, prices is Mexico City are 20%% -50% less and
>the dental work is very good. If you're nervous about being treated by
>a Mexican trained dentists, locate one who graduated from an American
>school; they've got plenty of them.
>
>And if you bring the kids, that $10,000 worth of dental work the family
>needs can drop to $5000 to $2500.
>
>Terrific, no?

Wonderful! "Hey kids, we're off on holiday.. we're all going to the
dentist!" I don't think so.

Ann
I have dentist tomorrow at 8.30am.. see if he's heard of ITP.. ha!

rick wrote:

> Today even dental schools
> which certainly don't need the money, overcharge;

This is an amazingly ignorant statement.

Even though MORE dental schools are needed in the United States, over
the last fifteen years several schools have CLOSED. Why? Because they
were going broke.

The fees charged by dental schools for their work don't even cover
their costs. An organization that can't even cover its costs is forced
to close -- like Loyola of Chicago, like Nortwestern, like Emory and
like Georgetown.

But of course, it is easier to make up ignorant statements than it is
to check the facts.

> So what to do?
>
> Here's what I recommend: Get all your dental work done overseas while
> on vacation. For example, prices is Mexico City are 20%% -50% less and
> the dental work is very good.

I don't suppose that you are in a position to judge whether "the dental
work is very good." How much of that "dental work" have you personally
examined over the last ten or twenty years? Where did you obtain your
dental education yourself? How many such patients have you examined?

Here in southern California, dentists are in a position to evaluate the
quality of dental treatment from many other countries, as we have so
many immigrants, and are so close to the Mexican border. Most of what
we see would flunk any American licensure exam, period.

> If you're nervous about being treated by
> a Mexican trained dentists, locate one who graduated from an American
> school; they've got plenty of them.

Gee, I can't imagine why anyone would be nervous being treated by
dentists who don't have to maintain American standards because they
operate in a much more lax regulatory environment.

American dentists must maintain strict standards for sterilization and
operating procedures. American dentists are subject to peer review and
have to obey licensicng laws, and are always under the threat of
malpractice actions in American courts.

Just try obtaining a free American-style Peer Review in Mexico. Good
luck.

- dentaldoc

Bill wrote:

> rick wrote:

>
>
> This is an amazingly ignorant statement.
>
> Even though MORE dental schools are needed in the United States, over
> the last fifteen years several schools have CLOSED. Why? Because they
> were going broke.
>
> The fees charged by dental schools for their work don't even cover
> their costs. An organization that can't even cover its costs is forced
> to close -- like Loyola of Chicago, like Nortwestern, like Emory and
> like Georgetown.>
> But of course, it is easier to make up ignorant statements than it is
> to check the facts.
>
>

>
>
> I don't suppose that you are in a position to judge whether "the dental
> work is very good." How much of that "dental work" have you personally
> examined over the last ten or twenty years? Where did you obtain your
> dental education yourself? How many such patients have you examined?
>
> Here in southern California, dentists are in a position to evaluate the
> quality of dental treatment from many other countries, as we have so
> many immigrants, and are so close to the Mexican border. Most of what
> we see would flunk any American licensure exam, period.
>
>
>
>

>
>
> Gee, I can't imagine why anyone would be nervous being treated by
> dentists who don't have to maintain American standards because they
> operate in a much more lax regulatory environment.
>
> American dentists must maintain strict standards for sterilization and
> operating procedures. American dentists are subject to peer review and
> have to obey licensicng laws, and are always under the threat of
> malpractice actions in American courts.
>
> Just try obtaining a free American-style Peer Review in Mexico. Good
> luck.
>
> - dentaldoc

I have no idea why the dental schools you named have closed and suspect
you don't either. However, I'd be willing to research the question and
report back if you're willing to go on the record as saying the reason
was money.

Deal ...?

As to your specific charge of "sterilization and operating procedures,"
I, and I'm sure others in this newsgroup, are sadden that you would
stoop to that level.

Implying foreigners are dirty is the kind of comment that I thought we
Americans stopped making decades ago.

Then again, maybe you didn't include British dentists just brown ones.
If so, be sure to let George know, I'm sure he'd appreciate that.


ricland

Bill wrote:

> rick wrote:

>
>
>
>

>
>
> Gee, I can't imagine why anyone would be nervous being treated by
> dentists who don't have to maintain American standards because they
> operate in a much more lax regulatory environment.

LOL-lax regulation, American Dentistry is thy name.
Who regulates a dentists work quality on site?
Who regulates their machines?
Who supervises them or their employess?

The worst that can happen is a slap on the wrist from the dental boards
made up of, you guessed it.. "a board of highly sympathetic supervisory
dentists", years after the fact! But don't the boards spend most of
their time going after people who don't worship RC and amalgam anyway?
or working with legislatures to concoct convoluted "arbitration laws"
and "certificate of expert requirements" so that the fox is practically
guaranteed of guarding the henhouse at all times?

Or perhaps you've confused the American lawsuit system with
"regulation"?
Paying a lawyer $20,000 for a $5,000 botched RC isn't regualtion.

>
> American dentists must maintain strict standards for sterilization and
> operating procedures. American dentists are subject to peer review and
> have to obey licensicng laws,

LOL, who enforces these strict standards? Operating procedures? Who
superivises the quality of office equipments such as amalgamators? Who
tests the lines for bacterial contamination?

Peer review from dental boards is just a eumphamism for no regulation
at all! Politicians are peer reviewed too and have extensive review
from "ethics committees". And what about "ethical codes"? Just look at
the ADA, which, my gosh, swears on an Oath of God and country about a
dozen times each year that it is just a trade organizatin with no legal
responsabiity at all!

>and are always under the threat of
> malpractice actions in American courts.

Which they have no concern over at all since their cushy insurance
plans
will pay for the legal judgements and court costs, not to mention you'd
practically have to butcher a patient to violate the "standard of
care". In reality few medical professionals ever pay out of pocket. Not
to mention the astronomical legal costs required to bring a lawsuit
unless a lawyer feel its a slam dunk million dollar bonanza!. But is
the American Legal system your definition of regulation? As i stated
above see tort reform mandatory arbitration laws, consiracy of silence
and certificate of expert requirements. That's correct , you actually
have to get another dentist to testify to prove the negligene of the
first, with one shining exception (informed consent)! That's Bill's
definition of American justice, unless you have $10,000 to ship in an
expert from the other coast!

>
> Just try obtaining a free American-style Peer Review in Mexico. Good
> luck.

In mexico who knows what constitues justice?

Clinton wrote:

> Bill wrote:

>

>
> LOL-lax regulation, American Dentistry is thy name.
> Who regulates a dentists work quality on site?
> Who regulates their machines?
> Who supervises them or their employess?
>
> The worst that can happen is a slap on the wrist from the dental boards
> made up of, you guessed it.. "a board of highly sympathetic supervisory
> dentists", years after the fact! But don't the boards spend most of
> their time going after people who don't worship RC and amalgam anyway?
> or working with legislatures to concoct convoluted "arbitration laws"
> and "certificate of expert requirements" so that the fox is practically
> guaranteed of guarding the henhouse at all times?
>
> Or perhaps you've confused the American lawsuit system with
> "regulation"?
> Paying a lawyer $20,000 for a $5,000 botched RC isn't regualtion.
>

>
> LOL, who enforces these strict standards? Operating procedures? Who
> superivises the quality of office equipments such as amalgamators? Who
> tests the lines for bacterial contamination?
>
> Peer review from dental boards is just a eumphamism for no regulation
> at all! Politicians are peer reviewed too and have extensive review
> from "ethics committees". And what about "ethical codes"? Just look at
> the ADA, which, my gosh, swears on an Oath of God and country about a
> dozen times each year that it is just a trade organizatin with no legal
> responsabiity at all!
>
>

>
> Which they have no concern over at all since their cushy insurance
> plans
> will pay for the legal judgements and court costs, not to mention you'd
> practically have to butcher a patient to violate the "standard of
> care". In reality few medical professionals ever pay out of pocket. Not
> to mention the astronomical legal costs required to bring a lawsuit
> unless a lawyer feel its a slam dunk million dollar bonanza!. But is
> the American Legal system your definition of regulation? As i stated
> above see tort reform mandatory arbitration laws, consiracy of silence
> and certificate of expert requirements. That's correct , you actually
> have to get another dentist to testify to prove the negligene of the
> first, with one shining exception (informed consent)! That's Bill's
> definition of American justice, unless you have $10,000 to ship in an
> expert from the other coast!
>
>

>
> In mexico who knows what constitues justice?

Ha, ha, ha...

Busy writing your snappy comeback, Dr. Bill?

Take your time; we'll wait.

ricland

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:49 -0700, rick wrote:

> First thing: They're all in it together. From coast to coast American
> dentists have all signed-on to the religion of overcharging. And you can
> forget about dental schools which were once a safe-haven for those seeking
> reasonable dental fees -- no more. Today even dental schools which
> certainly don't need the money, overcharge; possibly to get the students
> in the right frame of mind before they graduate.
>
> So what to do?
>
> Here's what I recommend: Get all your dental work done overseas while on
> vacation. For example, prices is Mexico City are 20%% -50% less and the
> dental work is very good. If you're nervous about being treated by a
> Mexican trained dentists, locate one who graduated from an American
> school; they've got plenty of them.
>
> And if you bring the kids, that $10,000 worth of dental work the family
> needs can drop to $5000 to $2500.
>
> Terrific, no?

You'd need a flaming long holiday if you tried that in the UK!!!!!!!!!

>
> ricland

DP wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:49 -0700, rick wrote:
>

>
> You'd need a flaming long holiday if you tried that in the UK!!!!!!!!!
>

What the hell are all these Brits doing here?

Somebody giving away free kidney pies and Guinness?

ric

"rick" <> wrote in message
news: ups.com...

> First thing: They're all in it together. From coast to coast American
> dentists have all signed-on to the religion of overcharging. And you
> can forget about dental schools which were once a safe-haven for those
> seeking reasonable dental fees -- no more. Today even dental schools
> which certainly don't need the money, overcharge; possibly to get the
> students in the right frame of mind before they graduate.
>
> So what to do?
>
> Here's what I recommend: Get all your dental work done overseas while
> on vacation. For example, prices is Mexico City are 20%% -50% less and
> the dental work is very good. If you're nervous about being treated by
> a Mexican trained dentists, locate one who graduated from an American
> school; they've got plenty of them.
>
> And if you bring the kids, that $10,000 worth of dental work the family
> needs can drop to $5000 to $2500.
>
> Terrific, no?
>
> ricland
>

What about the emergency, are you going to jump on the next flight to Mexico
and get that chipped tooth taken care of? What about those yearly exams?
Better yet, how do you handle it if you need more work done than can be done
in a single visit?

Not to drive a Mack Truck through the holes in your theory, but here are
some actual figures for your theory.

From where I live, per person it costs about $500 for roundtrip airfare to
Mexico City, then an additional $70 per night for a hotel, then another $30
for food per person, and $20 for transportation.

That means, for a family of 4 to go to Mexico City and say for 5 days to get
work done and to make sure they are not in pain, and get any adjustments
made, would cost $2600, and to do that 2 times a year would cost $5200.
That price does not include any "fun" activities while in Mexico. According
to what you say the price difference is between US and Mexican dentists is
50%. So, unless you are having $10,000 or more worth of dental work done,
it is cheaper to have your work done in the US. So, for example if you have
dental exams, and a few fillings, you may only spend $5000 in a year
(assuming you don't have dental insurance), in which case you have $5000 for
a vacation.

YouGoFirst wrote:

> "rick" <> wrote in message
> news: ups.com...

>
> What about the emergency, are you going to jump on the next flight to Mexico
> and get that chipped tooth taken care of? What about those yearly exams?
> Better yet, how do you handle it if you need more work done than can be done
> in a single visit?
>
> Not to drive a Mack Truck through the holes in your theory, but here are
> some actual figures for your theory.
>
> From where I live, per person it costs about $500 for roundtrip airfare to
> Mexico City, then an additional $70 per night for a hotel, then another $30
> for food per person, and $20 for transportation.
>
> That means, for a family of 4 to go to Mexico City and say for 5 days to get
> work done and to make sure they are not in pain, and get any adjustments
> made, would cost $2600, and to do that 2 times a year would cost $5200.
> That price does not include any "fun" activities while in Mexico. According
> to what you say the price difference is between US and Mexican dentists is
> 50%. So, unless you are having $10,000 or more worth of dental work done,
> it is cheaper to have your work done in the US. So, for example if you have
> dental exams, and a few fillings, you may only spend $5000 in a year
> (assuming you don't have dental insurance), in which case you have $5000 for
> a vacation.

Move to San Diego.

ric