Hi!
I have been postponing orthodontic treatment for a couple of years but
will start in this Winter. I have an immediate need for some fillings
and I wanted to have a few other issues looked into at the same time.
I was wonderng if anything would be a waste of time or hinder the
subsequent orthodontic treatment..

Fissure sealant for high risk teeth
Flouride varnish to reduce sensitivity on some receding gums
Replace amalgam fillings with composite
*Crown to replace a repaired tooth on lower left where there is 1/2
unit Class II occlusion

I have a full orthodontic report available.. It's a huge amount of
money to spend ($8000) without properly researching things.. even more
so when you consider it will be re-treatment for orthodontics I wore
12 years ago. I hope there is some expertise here to help me make a
more informed decision.

<> wrote in message
news: ps.com...

> Hi!
> I have been postponing orthodontic treatment for a couple of years but
> will start in this Winter. I have an immediate need for some fillings
> and I wanted to have a few other issues looked into at the same time.
> I was wonderng if anything would be a waste of time or hinder the
> subsequent orthodontic treatment..
>
> Fissure sealant for high risk teeth
> Flouride varnish to reduce sensitivity on some receding gums
> Replace amalgam fillings with composite
> *Crown to replace a repaired tooth on lower left where there is 1/2
> unit Class II occlusion

Provided all of this work is actually needed, your general dentist is the
best person to ask if all of these should be done before the orthodontics.
Without seeing you, it is impossible to make specific recommendations. For
the things you have described, they are generally done before the
orthodontics. However, your situation maybe unique so that not all of them
should be done before. That's why your dentist is the person to ask. For
example, if your orthodontics will potentially leave small spaces between
some of your teeth, it may be best to wait until after the orthodontics to
replace some of your fillings or do the crown. Please ask questions to your
dentist.

>
> I have a full orthodontic report available.. It's a huge amount of
> money to spend ($8000) without properly researching things.. even more
> so when you consider it will be re-treatment for orthodontics I wore
> 12 years ago. I hope there is some expertise here to help me make a
> more informed decision.

This leads to the question.....why is re-treatment necessary in your case?
What were you told by the orthodontist? Can you post photos of your teeth?

For all of the other dentists on this group...is $8000 a lot of money for a
re-treatment? Here in Canada, nonsurgical cases by orthodontists are
usually no more than $6000.

John

1. Aren't crowns, unless acrylic provisionals, done AFTER the ortho?
2. If mercury fillings are servicible, can't they be replaced AFTER the
ortho?
3. In the areas of recession, usually the canine-premolar areas, is
there ENOUGH attached tissue i.e. do you need epithelialized gingival
grafts to increase zone of attached tissue, to withstand ortho forces,
and that varnishing the exposed roots will not provide enough resistance
to the forces.
8. Where are you located for this 8K makeover?

Hi!
Thank you for your prompt answers and sorry for the slight delay in
replying. I very much appreciate that you guys are giving professional
advice in a public forum. I have some images of my teeth now:

http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth2.jpg This is a general image
showing occlusion
http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth3.jpg Showing receding gums
http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth2.jpg Showing the discoloration
on 3
http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth.pdf The orthodontic report

I am in UK and the $8k USD quote is from a Harley Street Orthodontic
practice. I'm a little sceptical about Harley Street in general - too
many people just setting up there thinking that the location alone
will give them adequate credibility and trust to get customers.. I'm
also aware that I could probably fly over to Canada/USA and have
treatment and a holiday for a cheaper price..

The ortho report doesnt mention it but I have lower 8/8 hidden under
gums - they have grown sideways. Both top 6 have amalgam fillings.

The original orthodontic treatment in 1996 was free under the NHS
(UK's free dental care system) and removable retainers supplied which
I wore for several years afterwards, but perhaps not long enough... I
think there are better retention systems available to orthodontists
now that were not available to NHS patients... to help keep them in
the right place this time

I have a little spare cash now to fix my teeth and my aims are as
follows:
1. Improve occlusion and not have to "rock" my jaw from side to side
to get proper occlusion on the left side
2. Staighten both arches
3. Replace the temporarily fixed lower left 6 with a crown
4. Replace the amalgam fillings with something durable and tooth
coloured
5. Do something like fissure sealant to help prevent future decay on
teeth at risk
6. Repair the front top 3
7. Whiten my teeth
8. be taught how to smile without looking like Cherie Blair
9. Repair or control the receding gums

I cannot speak for what is a fair fee in the UK, but the treatment plan
sounds right on.

A final result like yours after any type of orthodontics in the past needs
further clarification. This is not an acceptable final result, but I don't
know what treatment was done and if any treatment was refused.

The NHS is one reason I shudder when Queen Hillary of NY and Michael Moore
start to spew propaganda about how we need national health insurance in the
USA. I love it.

--
/

Amatus

/
"City_Knight" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...

> Hi!
> Thank you for your prompt answers and sorry for the slight delay in
> replying. I very much appreciate that you guys are giving professional
> advice in a public forum. I have some images of my teeth now:
>
> http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth2.jpg This is a general image
> showing occlusion
> http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth3.jpg Showing receding gums
> http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth2.jpg Showing the discoloration
> on 3
> http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth.pdf The orthodontic report
>
> I am in UK and the $8k USD quote is from a Harley Street Orthodontic
> practice. I'm a little sceptical about Harley Street in general - too
> many people just setting up there thinking that the location alone
> will give them adequate credibility and trust to get customers.. I'm
> also aware that I could probably fly over to Canada/USA and have
> treatment and a holiday for a cheaper price..
>
> The ortho report doesnt mention it but I have lower 8/8 hidden under
> gums - they have grown sideways. Both top 6 have amalgam fillings.
>
> The original orthodontic treatment in 1996 was free under the NHS
> (UK's free dental care system) and removable retainers supplied which
> I wore for several years afterwards, but perhaps not long enough... I
> think there are better retention systems available to orthodontists
> now that were not available to NHS patients... to help keep them in
> the right place this time
>
> I have a little spare cash now to fix my teeth and my aims are as
> follows:
> 1. Improve occlusion and not have to "rock" my jaw from side to side
> to get proper occlusion on the left side
> 2. Staighten both arches
> 3. Replace the temporarily fixed lower left 6 with a crown
> 4. Replace the amalgam fillings with something durable and tooth
> coloured
> 5. Do something like fissure sealant to help prevent future decay on
> teeth at risk
> 6. Repair the front top 3
> 7. Whiten my teeth
> 8. be taught how to smile without looking like Cherie Blair
> 9. Repair or control the receding gums
>
>

> The NHS is one reason I shudder when Queen Hillary of NY and Michael Moore

> start to spew propaganda about how we need national health insurance in
> the USA. I love it.
>

It is unlikely that any universal health care system that the US would
introduce would include dental care, in my opinion. It would make an
incredibly expensive situation even more incredibly expensive.

AC, what is your issue with universal health care (ie. one that does
includes medical procedures only, not dental)? NHS is a horrible example of
universal health care. Other countries do it much better, but also, not
without their problems.

John

Universal health care always ends up costing more than is reasonable for
care that is usually restricted in some way. I would much prefer to see
protection for medical personnel and facilities that do their best to take
care of the patient (fewer frivolous lawsuits), and a properly tiered health
care system, where you buy the level of care you can afford. Right now,
everyone thinks they are *entitled* to Rolls Royce level of care. I think
Buick or Mercury level of care would usually be adequate.

--
/

Amatus

/
"John & Ninetta" <> wrote in message
news:Cs6dnWL12-...

>
> It is unlikely that any universal health care system that the US would
> introduce would include dental care, in my opinion. It would make an
> incredibly expensive situation even more incredibly expensive.
>
> AC, what is your issue with universal health care (ie. one that does
> includes medical procedures only, not dental)? NHS is a horrible example
> of universal health care. Other countries do it much better, but also,
> not without their problems.
>
> John
>

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:31:47 GMT, "Amatus Cremona" <> wrote:

>Universal health care always ends up costing more than is reasonable for
>care that is usually restricted in some way. I would much prefer to see
>protection for medical personnel and facilities that do their best to take
>care of the patient (fewer frivolous lawsuits), and a properly tiered health
>care system, where you buy the level of care you can afford. Right now,
>everyone thinks they are *entitled* to Rolls Royce level of care. I think
>Buick or Mercury level of care would usually be adequate.
>
>--
>/
>
>Amatus

What !? no Isletta level of care ?


IMO the inherent nature of government bureaucracy makes most
'departments' the most inefficient delivery model possible.

If medicare/medicaid is any indication of how national health
care would work in the US it is easy to see how disasterous
Hillary Care would become.

The US system certainly has flaws but if the model is the UK
or Canadian systems we're all in deep doodoo.

Eventually both of these systems will collapse under their own
weight and then you will have the government deciding who
lives and who dies.

JM2¢

> Universal health care always ends up costing more than is reasonable for
> care that is usually restricted in some way.

Yes, but a private insurance company to whom you pay your premiums would do
the same, with a lot greater ease, in my opinion.

> I would much prefer to see protection for medical personnel and facilities
> that do their best to take care of the patient (fewer frivolous lawsuits),

Fewer frivolous lawsuits in America? That will never happen.

> and a properly tiered health care system, where you buy the level of care
> you can afford. Right now, everyone thinks they are *entitled* to Rolls
> Royce level of care. I think Buick or Mercury level of care would usually
> be adequate.

So, if I didn't sign up for the plan that allows a heart transplant (one of
the most complex and expensive surgeries one can receive, equivalent to a
Rolls Royce by your comparison) and I suddenly need one, how does that leave
me? People who grow up with universal health care don't think that way.

John

NHS Dental care isn't that great but NHS medical care has been very
good to me. We're definitely moving in the right direction with
smoking bans and a tax rate proportional to your % bodyfat with tax
credits for gym attendance/cycling to work etc..
Anyway.. I thnk we should start a new topic for discussing national
healthcare systems - there's clearly some strong opinion.

In the meantime would someone please comment specifically on the
receding gums and discoloured top3?

http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth3.jpg Showing receding gums
http://www.chrismurray.eu/teeth/teeth2.jpg Showing the discoloration
on 3