On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:58:14 GMT, "carabelli"
<> wrote:

>

>
>If they do, I hope it's not in Kansas.
>

This happened in Massachusetts. Looks like it's against the law here,
too: http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/112%2D50.htm

Any suggestions as to how we should handle this?

>How would you have felt if you walked into his office, with no teeth in

>pain, and he told you that you needed 12 fillings and 2 or 3 crowns? It
>sounds like your dentist is just being conservative. Perhaps he *should*
>have given you the 12 fillings/2 crown treatment plan up front. But, then
>I'd bet you'd be here griping about the expensive treatment plan your
>"money-grubbing dentist just handed you".
>

Not at all. I have no problem with his charges, as long as he does
good work (which he does, when he's physically there). I can easily
agree with your perception that he's being conservative, and I'm glad
I brought it up, because I feel better at least about that part. I
suppose we could have asked him these questions about the fillings,
but if you're apparently offended about it, why wouldn't he be? And
he's the one drilling our teeth...

In any case, if we confirm that he charged insurance for a periodic
oral exam, what should we do? Contact the insurance company?

Sure ...... forget it.

If there is no "damages," a civil case will not fly. If you notify law
enforcement authorities they will act all concerned and laugh after
you walk out. They are busy letting off murderers and rapists and
cannot be bothered with miscreant dental hygienists.

If you want some satisfaction, tell the dentist, or write him a
letter. Of course he too will ignore you ..... ........


Joel


On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:13:39 GMT, Zrat <> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:58:14 GMT, "carabelli"
><> wrote:
>

>
>This happened in Massachusetts. Looks like it's against the law here,
>too: http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/112%2D50.htm
>
>Any suggestions as to how we should handle this?

--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA

STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
<You fill it in>

Go ahead,,,, you will be branded as a "trouble-maker."


On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:44:56 GMT, "NOYB" <> wrote:

>
>"Zrat" <> wrote in message
>news:.. .
>

>
>Contact the dentist. Sometimes our front desk people get a little too
>ambitious and we're not even aware. If he fails to issue you a refund, then
>contact the insurance company.
>

--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA

STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
<You fill it in>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:44:56 GMT, "NOYB" <> wrote:

>Contact the dentist. Sometimes our front desk people get a little too
>ambitious and we're not even aware. If he fails to issue you a refund, then
>contact the insurance company.
>

I called and spoke to the receptionist. At first she said we were
charged for a periodic oral exam. Then I mentioned that my wife never
saw the dentist, and the receptionist then said, "Oh wait...nope! You
weren't charged for that." For what? "The exam by the dentist."

The issue remains that the hygienist, not the dentist, identified the
cavity and the chipped filling, and after the cleaning, the hygienist
took the patient and her records to the receptionist and mentioned the
recommended treatment to the receptionist for scheduling purposes.
Regardless of whether we were charged for a dentist's examination,
isn't this a problem? Would it be okay with you to pay less once per
year to get a dental analysis by a hygienist?

This isn't helping ........ its hard to get a competent, honest,
non-crown-happy dentist ........ if you have one cut him some slack
and let him extract an extra $20 as that might be the difference
between his happiness and his morose side!

Joel

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:59:31 GMT, Zrat <> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:44:56 GMT, "NOYB" <> wrote:
>

>
>I called and spoke to the receptionist. At first she said we were
>charged for a periodic oral exam. Then I mentioned that my wife never
>saw the dentist, and the receptionist then said, "Oh wait...nope! You
>weren't charged for that." For what? "The exam by the dentist."
>
>The issue remains that the hygienist, not the dentist, identified the
>cavity and the chipped filling, and after the cleaning, the hygienist
>took the patient and her records to the receptionist and mentioned the
>recommended treatment to the receptionist for scheduling purposes.
>Regardless of whether we were charged for a dentist's examination,
>isn't this a problem? Would it be okay with you to pay less once per
>year to get a dental analysis by a hygienist?

--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA

STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
<You fill it in>

"Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." wrote:

> Not in Pennsylvania!
>
> Dental hygienists are specifically PROHIBITED by law from diagnosis.
>
> What about NY? As you know that is my old state and they are usually
> up on dental law.

I've never employed a hygienist, so I'm not up on the fine points. I believe there must be a
dentist supervising the hygienist. I don't recall the precise definition of the supervision. I did
long ago (maybe '81-82) work in an office where the hygienist would examine and chart caries, and the
(owner) dentist would walk in, do a cursory followup exam to confirm charting, and walk out. I
believe he was upholding the letter, if not the spirit of the law. I did my own exams and chartings.

Of course, the fine points of the dental practice act may have changed since then in this
regard. As I said, I've never had a hygienist, so I don't know.

Steve

>
>

>

>
> --
> Joel M. Eichen, .
> Philadelphia PA
>
> STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
> <You fill it in>

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
http://www.dentaltwins.com

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:23:39 GMT, "NOYB" <> wrote:

>
>Why would you pay twice a year for something that only needs to be done once
>a year?

Actually, that's why I asked -- it wasn't hypothetical.

>This is so goofy!

>HH: Well, the doctor can't come in right now. Let's do this. I'll schedule
>enough time for the doctor to do the filling if he things you need it. Either
>way he needs to look at it.

I'd suggest waking up, because you're in dreamland if you think this
dentist will analyze the situation during the next appointment and
send my wife off without treatment. The scheduled appointment was
*for* the treatment, period.

Perhaps you live in the land of ethics, but apparently not all offices
do.

You are correct and I support your comments to never be untruthful or
even slightly off with upcoding and miscoding.

However, doctor and patient, it sure causes problems when the cops
come out with their guns out looking for evidence!

DOC: "Oh exam? Of course I did it!"




Joel

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:21:30 GMT, "NOYB" <> wrote:

>I disagree, Joel. Charging for an exam that wasn't completed is not only
>bad business, it's also illegal. He should tell the dentist immediately.
>
>
>"Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." <> wrote in message
>news:.. .

>then

>

--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA

STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
<You fill it in>